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jmc15john

America, Abandoned by God
« on: June 18, 2007, 09:51:03 AM »
I just want to hear what y'all think about this.  I believe America has been abandoned by God.  It is quite clear when you look at scripture.  Romans 1:18-32 talks distinctively about what it looks like when God abandons a country.  Here is a message given by John Macarthur on the national day of pray about a month back discussing the idea that God has abandoned America.

http://listen.family.org/daily/A000000496.cfm       part 1 (about 25 min.)
http://listen.family.org/daily/A000000497.cfm       part 2 (about 25 min.)


What do y'all think?

|CoR| Crutch

Re: America, Abandoned by God
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2007, 12:07:34 PM »
hmm, hes right. But who will stand up and be heard?

datank

Re: America, Abandoned by God
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2007, 10:33:25 PM »
I don't have 50 minutes to watch that...

But I find the title of that disturbing in many ways, but that's just me... I think rather I would be more in support of God, Abandoned by America.
"There is no real reason for half of the threads created on this forum." - me

|CoR| Teb:
Quote
I'm locking this.  There is no real reason for this thread.

|CoR| Crutch

Re: America, Abandoned by God
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2007, 11:23:00 AM »
When you find some time, listen to it. Hes right. The fall of America is kinda worth loosing 50 minutes.

|CoR| Legolas

Re: America, Abandoned by God
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2007, 05:03:03 PM »
http://www.thecall.com/

Like datank said...

America abandoned God...not the other way around...

Check out The Call.

Revival is coming. I promise.

[youtube=425,350]WHEJRPlaBk4[/youtube]

|CoR| Legolas*GI*     
*STAR* and *PiG* Official Member.

**Eleet computer builder club - 7 Fan Wonder**

Parents need to cowboy up.

Chuck Norris is the reason why Waldo is hiding.

|CoR| Legolas

Re: America, Abandoned by God
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2007, 05:12:49 PM »
Lou Engle is the leader of TheCall.

He is incredible. My church hosted a youth conference this past week, www.jesusculture.org, and he was the main speaker.

He is carrying a message for this country and it is incredible.

I honestly don't want to hear about God abandoning America...Get on your knees and do something about it.

Lou is a very passionate man and rocks when he speaks. I love it :)


[youtube=425,350]Ifi90i6XzlM[/youtube]
[youtube=425,350]OPVuLTdECm4[/youtube]
[youtube=425,350]_6qWR4PI43s[/youtube]
[youtube=425,350]n3dgZg-cOf0[/youtube]
[youtube=425,350]TbSSfEl2D7Y[/youtube]
« Last Edit: June 20, 2007, 02:11:11 AM by |CoR| Legolas »
|CoR| Legolas*GI*     
*STAR* and *PiG* Official Member.

**Eleet computer builder club - 7 Fan Wonder**

Parents need to cowboy up.

Chuck Norris is the reason why Waldo is hiding.

Guardian

Re: America, Abandoned by God
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2007, 05:40:51 PM »
I gotta say, if you start with the premise of Romans 1 being about nations... you've laid a foundation for your argument on poor interpretation.

Romans 1 is about people who live sinful unrepentant lives in the presence of the knowledge of God.  It refers to a great number of individuals.  Nowhere in there does it mention God turning his back on an entire nation because a percentage of them have turned their back on God.  In case you haven't noticed, God stopped paying so much attention to Nations in the New Testament, and started dealing entirely with people.

God has turned some in America over to their sin, yes.  But there are millions and millions of believers in this nation, believers which God promised he would never leave them or forsake them.

I believe some powerful revival is coming too.  But I also believe that while the kingdom of God will get stronger, those outside of the kingdom will continue to dive deeper and deeper into their depravity.

Yes America has a great deal of wickedness, yes we have some very weak churches... but we also have a lot of absolutely thriving churches, and this nation is still very very blessed in many ways, and many people in this nation use those blessings to further the kingdom.

Has God abandoned America?  No, and he never will as long as the faithful remain.

Peace and God Bless!
~Brandon D. Watts
~Guardian
~General of *FR*, |CoR|
When men cease to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing anything. - G.K. Chesterton

Newman

Re: America, Abandoned by God
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2007, 09:19:12 PM »
Kind of a sensationalistic title there - sounds like something you'd read on the Enquirer or something.

You don't see people in the New Testament focused on saving nations really, they instead just focus on spreading the gospel to everybody they can, and making disciples of anybody who listens.  This whole idea of obsessing about America is sort of egotistical I think, one of those "big issues" that none of us can really change, simply distracting us from the things we CAN change, like witnessing to those around us, being a Christlike example, giving money to the church or the poor, etc.

God's commands are generally extremely simple - love Him, and love your neighbor as yourself.  He's the one who is in charge of nations, let Him worry about the big things - and let's worry about what He's put on our plate for right now.

If this were an argument - what good does it do?  Do we gain anything by deciding this?
« Last Edit: June 19, 2007, 09:21:10 PM by Newman »
I'm looking at you, muwhahaha!!!

|CoR| Crutch

Re: America, Abandoned by God
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2007, 10:44:48 AM »
So, if you are in complete knowledge of God, and you are choosing to sin, and as in the scripture God turns from you, how would you make amends? It seems more serious then just asking God to forgive you. I remember in the story of David, where the king prayed to God but didn't get a reply. His prayers were not heard. I am wondering if this is one in the same.

|CoR| Legolas

Re: America, Abandoned by God
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2007, 11:04:14 AM »
You repent.

Look at what happened with Jonah and Nineveh.

Nation repented, God spared them.

Repentance means more than just asking for forgiveness, repentance means to change the way you think about a specific thing. It means to turn around and go the other direction.
|CoR| Legolas*GI*     
*STAR* and *PiG* Official Member.

**Eleet computer builder club - 7 Fan Wonder**

Parents need to cowboy up.

Chuck Norris is the reason why Waldo is hiding.

jmc15john

Re: America, Abandoned by God
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2007, 01:34:14 PM »
I would say that the majority of American by fair have no clue what the word repent means.  Y'all are right though, we do need to get out there and let America know who God really is.  If we don't speak up, then who will?  I think that persecution will come soon, the kind where your not allowed to preach against homosexuality or tell people on the streets their going to hell if they don't trust and follow Jesus.  I also think through this persecution, many carnal Christians will fall away, while true christianity will begin to grow. 

Guardian

Re: America, Abandoned by God
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2007, 02:00:42 PM »
I would say that the majority of American by fair have no clue what the word repent means.  Y'all are right though, we do need to get out there and let America know who God really is.  If we don't speak up, then who will?  I think that persecution will come soon, the kind where your not allowed to preach against homosexuality or tell people on the streets their going to hell if they don't trust and follow Jesus.  I also think through this persecution, many carnal Christians will fall away, while true christianity will begin to grow. 

That's debatable actually.  Truth is, I see the tax breaks churches get going out the window eventually should they preach out against homosexuality, because some legal argument may be made about how indirectly the government is funding some sort of anti-gay message or whatever.  But freedom of speech is a powerful force.  I've even heard a few ACLU guys say that churches should be able to preach what they want and believe what they want, since they're private organizations.  I don't know how much of the ACLU represents, but hey if its even 1% that's something with those guys!

Also a strong number of gays and lesbians are not for such legislation either.  They would like to see such preaching stopped, but from their perspective, only because people are enlightened or realize that being gay isn't that bad or whatever.  Forcing people through legislation is not the way a lot of them want to go.

Also the simple fact is, that there are tens of millions of serious believers in this country, and anywhere between 100 and 200 million with conservative values.  Even if the far-left elites get enough momentum to get such changes seriously going, it wouldn't be long before politics would, in order to get elected as they always do, begin focusing on the wants of that very large voter base.  American democracy may allow for some unpleasant changes  every now and then, but it typically is pretty good about avoiding extremes... unlike the media that often comments on it... and a number of pulpits that also like the media jump into extremes.

Also, what it means when God "Turns away" in Romans 1, is that he hands them over to their sin.  Even with the unbeliever, God's grace often manifests itself in the form of consciousness.  I can remember even before I started trying to serve God, when I first got into Pornography... I didn't have any spiritual reasons to avoid it, yet even so whenever I first started looking at it, I would get literally sick to my stomach.  I threw up a few times from it.  And without any reason at all, though I'd get away with it with my parents, and wasn't exactly God-fearing at the time, I would feel guilty about it, like I had did something wrong.  That was God's grace.  Eventually though I persisted, and the guilt and shame or whatever you want to call it was no longer felt.  Not only that, but the pornography began to seriously effect me in psychological ways, and spiritual, though I didn't recognize that at the time.  What happened, is I believe God turned me over to my sin, that he withdrew the providential graces that resisted the sin so much, and also protected me from the dangerous effects of what I was doing.  The result?  My sin eventually brought me to some of the very worst days of my life thus far... and as a result, I kneeled down completely broken and shattered before God, and for the very first time, professed not a belief in him, because I had always in some sense "believed in God", but I confessed my true need to know and live according to his ways, and to serve him.  This practice is also the purpose of excommunication as taught in I Corinthians 5,

1 Corinthians 5:5  To deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Keep in mind the purpose of Romans.  The book is basically an illustration of Salvation for sinners by God's grace, not by how much evil you've done vs. how much good you've done.  Paul doesn't just start with a side rant on how a bunch of people are sinners without hope.  Rather, he's first laying out the depth of human depravity, and the abomination that sin is to God, and then he takes that discourse on a trail to lay out our need for a savior, the grace of God, and how we can be saved. 

1 Corinthians 6:9-11  Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,  -10-  Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.  -11-  And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Illustrates how those who were not set to receive the kingdom, were justified by the grace of God's salvation.

Peace and God Bless!
~Brandon D. Watts
~Guardian
~General of *FR*, |CoR|
When men cease to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing anything. - G.K. Chesterton

Merlin

Re: America, Abandoned by God
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2007, 06:35:11 PM »
Quote
  I believe America has been abandoned by God
by Jmc John

  No John I disagree, the correct statement would be America has abandoned God.

|CoR| Legolas

Re: America, Abandoned by God
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2007, 08:26:57 PM »
Quote
  I believe America has been abandoned by God
by Jmc John

  No John I disagree, the correct statement would be America has abandoned God.

Again, someone already posted this...might want to read the thread before posting...

I don't have 50 minutes to watch that...

But I find the title of that disturbing in many ways, but that's just me... I think rather I would be more in support of God, Abandoned by America.

|CoR| Legolas*GI*     
*STAR* and *PiG* Official Member.

**Eleet computer builder club - 7 Fan Wonder**

Parents need to cowboy up.

Chuck Norris is the reason why Waldo is hiding.

Merlin

Re: America, Abandoned by God
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2007, 10:40:00 PM »
Quote
Again, someone already posted this...might want to read the thread before posting...
From Legolas,  ok somebody posted what they thought in response to the authors thread and I posted What I FELT in response to the authors thread, because someone else feels the same way I should not express my opinion?  Maybe you should let people respond in threads how they want.